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A Baby Step on Loophole at Gun Shows

The News & Advance
Published: April 30, 2008

In Virginia, guns rule. The most recent General Assembly session proved that. How else can you view a legislature that would seriously consider mixing deadly weapons with whiskey in a bar? How else can you view a proposal that would allow people without a concealed-carry permit to stash a loaded weapon in the glove box of the car?
And what about the commonsense proposal to make unlicensed gun dealers follow the same rules as licensed dealers and run background checks on gun buyers at gun shows?
Fortunately, neither of the first measures was approved. Unfortunately, the bill that would have restored some sanity to the sales of guns at shows — those open-air bazaars at which all sorts of weaponry is for sale to buyers who walk in off the street — also fell short of being approved.
Many thought this loophole in the gun show law would be closed after the Virginia Tech slayings last year. Although the killer did not get his weapons at a gun show, he could have. And had he purchased them from an unlicensed dealer, no would have known his criminal background, if any.
Now the Virginia State Crime Commission had decided to take a look at the private sale of guns at shows. That’s an excellent idea. But the commission has already said it will not recommend any proposed laws of its own.
And why is that? Because the political divisiveness of the issue surrounding the loophole in the laws regulating gun shows is too much for its members to handle. That’s pathetic, but it should not be unexpected in a state where guns rule the legislature.
The study itself could be useful. The commission will study state and federal firearms laws so the Assembly will have a clear understanding of the gun show law in any future legislative debates.
In September, the commission may direct staff members to try to obtain statistics on the number of gun show sales by unlicensed sellers and how many of those firearms wind up being used in crimes. That would be an interesting statistic.
But if it showed an alarming number of guns sold by unlicensed sellers at gun shows, wouldn’t you think the commission would recommend a course to reduce the sales of those weapons? After all, the crime commission is more or less charged with the duty of overseeing the fight against crime in Virginia, isn’t it?
Col. W. Gerald Massengill, former superintendent of the state police and a member of the crime commission, said he felt “very strongly about the Second Amendment.” But, he added, “I also feel strongly about public safety.”
Massengill, who also chaired the governor’s panel that reviewed last year’s Virginia Tech killings, told the commission that he favors more thorough background checks on gun show purchases.
And so does a majority of Virginians who find nothing objectionable about subjecting buyers of guns from unlicensed sellers to the same rules faced by licensed dealers.
It makes no sense to have two sets of rules for gun show buyers in Virginia. Subject them all to the background check and you’ll probably have a safer state.
If the Virginia State Crime Commission would put its weight and authority behind that effort, perhaps a bill closing that gun show loophole could pass the next Assembly session. In that, it could dent the rule of guns in Richmond.

Reader Reactions

Posted by ( poet ) on May 22, 2008 at 12:52 pm

And while I’m at it Larry, the Black Panthers weren’t shot up in 1911. That didn’t address the challenge.

Now you go on and on about Waco, why can’t you come up with the same defense for them? It surely was a historically recent event.

Another thing you’ve exposed yourself on. Since you can go back to misquote things about racisim in 1911, where were you during the civil rights movement? Where was your cults assistance then? I’ve not seen one sentence from your anarchy pages where your ilk supported a single black civil rights cause. Blacks were being lynched, bombed, houses and churches torched, little girls murdered, entired communities burned without a single person being brought to jutice, in most cases. Where was/is your organizations out cry about that? Yet, now, here you are trying to use racism as part and parcel to your silly so called facts. How dare you desecrate the memories and blood of those people!!!

Larry..do I smell a single racist rat, or an anarchy cult full of racist rats?

Posted by ( poet ) on May 22, 2008 at 12:30 pm

Larry you haven’t listed a single fact.

That half truth edited for convenience crap has no kinship to fact.

Its the same as the Nazis quoting from their own web pages and calling it fact.
Skinheads do the same thing.
you can find pages where so called preachers are calling for the re-enslavement of black people, and they quote their own skewed web pages to prove their point.

So it has been with you Larry. All through the thread you’ve quoted not one reliable source. Just the same propaganda time after time.

Now don’t hold me or The N/A responsible for your lies and repeated nonsense. If you want to debate facts, the first thing you have to do is supply them. This you have failed to do time and again.

And thank you, Larry, for the excersise. The anarchy organiaztions like yours, the Nazis, skinheads, fanatical right wing cults, KKK, ect, (all replete with their own web pages to quote from), are clear demonstrations of what true Americans are up against.

You can call me what you want, but clearly you can’t come up with any true facts to defeat me. You can bow out now and go hide in your american hating cult, or I can continue to call you out on your lies. The choice is yours. Like I said, I’m not going anywhere. This is one time you’re going to have to face the message of truth, instead of shouting it down.

Posted by ( lcfarrelljr ) on May 22, 2008 at 10:21 am

I’ve listed the facts about the unconstitutionality of
“Gun Control”, before the fact, background checks of gun purchasers while wondering while this newspaper refuses to demand the same before action background checks on the purchasers of motor vehicles, cigarettes and liquor, all vectors of death in the U.S., which vectors cause many, many, many more deaths in the U.S. than do privately owned firearms.

I’ve listed the murderous history of “Gun Control”,
and the fact that an almost exact copy of a page from the NAZI Weapons Law of 1938 is now contained in the U.S. Gun Control Act of 1968. I’ve listed the recorded history of “Gun Control” enabled, governmentally conducted mass murders and genocides, in which mass murders and genocides 10s of 1,000,000s of, now disarmed, people were slaughtered by the very governments that disarmed them.

I’ve listed the racist history of U.S. “Gun Control”,
and the racist reasons for the enactment of NYC’s 1911 Sullivan Law.

I’ve discussed with the editor of this page, and
mentioned in this debate, my hopes for a sentient,
factually based debate of the position of this
newspaper that favors constitutionally repugnant
background checks on the purchasers of private sale offered firearms, all to no avail.

All that has occurred is the presence in this debate
of the unhinged bleatings of “poet” (aka “Onan The
Barbarian”. It would seem that the readers of this
newspaper have read the nonsensical bleatings of
“poet”, read the historical facts presented by me, and have decided that the discussion is at a practical end.

I agree.

The editors of this newspaper seem to be incapable of factually defending, or are unwilling to factually
defend their endorsement of constitutionally
repugnant, prepurchase of privately owned firearms, background checks.

“poet” is quite obviously unhinged, demonstrably,
incapable of factually disputatious debate, and
therefor, as a debate opponent, unworthy of more
attention.

If Central VA has no one willing to factually debate
this issue, then the debate is over, and we on the side of Individual Liberty won it.

“poet”, thanks for, on your side of the issue, so
convincingly displayinga complete lack of “opinion” bolstering fact . You’ve been a great assistance to me in helping to demonstrate how unhinged and factually bankrupt are the defenders of elitist, statist, Rights depriving, murderous “Gun Control”.

Your assistance in proving the points raised by me has been invaluable, and, again, I thank you very, very much!

Larry Farrell

Posted by ( poet ) on May 22, 2008 at 9:53 am

Here we go again. No answer to my challenge.

Each link posted is from the exact same unctuous source, lifted out of context, for false effect, with no way of knowing what was said or done before or after. Just the same inbred rantings.

Now tell me Larry, if you, or your anarchy cult, were interested in posting the truth, why do you conveniently loop together certain select pieces and not link to any investigations or the conversations in context?

Ohhh, ohhhh I know!!! It because you know you’ll be proven a liar again. Oldest trick in the book son.
Just that same old tired crap.
You’re getting more and more pathetic Larry.

Posted by ( lcfarrelljr ) on May 21, 2008 at 5:32 pm

Links to accidentally recorder tapes of the Waco Massacre.

You’ll be shocked by the recorded ineptness of the murdering, “cowboy”, governmental forces.

If you love your country, listen, become revolted and demand a return to the principles of law and order, and respect for civilian control over the overarmed, over eager to use those military type firearms ,police forces of this country.

Larry Farrell

Posted by ( poet ) on May 21, 2008 at 12:35 pm

I don’t see anything in your web pages decrying law enforcement shooting up the Black Panthers. They had the same rights to arms, if you are to be believed. The problem is they fired on law enforcement, the same criminal activity that happened at Waco. So where is your support for them?

While I’m thinking of it, Larry, I’m still waiting for you to send me to the webpages you love so much to address the Black Panthers. You guys like to rally around Ruby Ridge and Waco, but law enforcement did the same things for the same reasons to the Black Panthers. They did the same thing to a black cult in Philedelphia about 10 years ago, where is your anarchy cult’s rallying cry for them?

Posted by ( poet ) on May 20, 2008 at 12:08 pm

Larry: You’re the one that keeps posting your propagandized BS as fact. It’s incumbent on you to substantiate it. Nobody out here has to disprove anything. You’re doing a fantastic job in failing all on your own.

And by the way, your attempt to slyly change the subject didn’t pass my notice. Nobody disputes private ownership of guns.Nobody disputes the 2nd amendmant. The subject matter is about unfettered access as opposed to registering said weapons and background checks for all those buying them.
Not about cars, ect. (I’m realy surprised your braniac reasonings forgot to mention baseball bats in the secment)
So you’re trying to conflate unrelated issues, which makes you a liar again.

Tell me Larry,with all the anti-American ranting you’ve posted, reading all the anti-American BS you’ve posted, even if you’re stupid enough to believe any of your own BS; tell me, do you still have your guns? Does your anarchy/cult organizations still have their guns? Have you lost a single gun through a background check?

If the answer to any of those questions are no, then that no in itself disproves everything you’ve said.

Posted by ( lcfarrelljr ) on May 20, 2008 at 9:01 am

Is there no one in the vast readership of this newspaper who is able to marshall opposing FACT to counter what I’ve been saying? Is the best that you illogical background check desiring, gun registering, then gun banning types can do, the public insanity of “poet”?

Is it?

If so, then I urge the editors of this newspaper to re-examine their stance on gun sale background checks, and take up a cause that makes sense, to wit, the ridding of VA’s residents of these very dangerous “gun free” killing zones that have been created by the ignorance of reality of “Bleeding Heart” types like the editors of this newspaper.

“Gun Control” kills; purely and simply. There is no body of valid, scientifically based, peer reviewed statistics that says other wise.

Below contained, from another commentator. is a prior post that bears repeating:

“Private sales do NOT provide guns for criminals.

That has been shown to you, but you choose not to believe any of the pertinent facts. So, then, this must not be about private sales, this must be about the press wanting to reduce the ability of law abiding folks to defend themselves as there is no gun show “loophole”. Federal law allows
people, who do not regularly participate in the sale of firearms for profit, to sell their firearms without obtaining a Federal Firearms License (FFL).

This can be done at gun shows, flea markets, or your kitchen table.

There is not only nothing special about gun shows, the feds even have studies to show that gun shows are NOT a problem. Federal studies show that criminals do not get their guns at gun shows. They either steal them or buy stolen guns. So once again you have started beating the same old drum. What you have here is a solution in search of a problem.

The main reason this upsets gun owners so much is it is in fact a very big step toward gun registration. Anytime you fill out a background check form it records the make, model, and serial number of the
firearm. So once the paper trail is completed the location of all LEGAL guns will be known. This makes it very easy to confiscate the LEGAL guns, leaving only the criminals with firearms. This has
happened repeatedly throughout history. The problem this time is none of the presidential candidates have the gun owner’s best interest at
heart. Oh, and you would do well to look into how a gun is transferred. It is not as easy as you would have some of your more uninformed readers believe and there are some very BIG pitfalls.”

Dr. John Lott, published a study called “More Guns, Less Crime” (University of Chicago), a study of crime in every county in the U.S that showed that private gun ownership actually reduced crime, and did so by a significant margin.

Dr. Gary Kleck is the author of Point Blank: Guns and Violence in America (Aldine de Gruyter, 1991), and Targeting Guns: Firearms and Their Control (Aldine de Gruyter, 1997). Dr. Kleck’s studies showed that privately owned guns are used for defensive purposes about 2.5 million times per year. Very often, the mere display to a criminal of a defensive firearm, prevents the intended crime from occurring. With 2.5 Million such defensive uses per year, it is easy to see that privately owned Guns Save Lives!

Larry Farrell

Posted by ( poet ) on May 20, 2008 at 8:44 am

What?????? no links to the congressional report? just links to recordings lifted out of a spot in time and put together for your propaganda’s convenience?? (what does anyone wanna bet?)

By the way larry, please get a dictionary. I know you believe anything your anarchy folks tell you and you don’t beleieve you have a responsiblity to actually think, but you’ve misapplied a priori several times.

But then again that’s what you do, huh. Misstate, twist, conflate, lie.

More of the same BS.

Posted by ( lcfarrelljr ) on May 19, 2008 at 9:58 pm

Here are links to recordings of the U.S. Government’s horrible, murderous performance at Waco, TX in which 80+ innocent people were machine gunned and burned alive, by a bunch of out of control, shoot first, unconstitutional Federal police.

U.S. “Gun Control” at Waco was. and is, an examplar of what a Tyrannical government can, and will do when that government thinks it is being thwarted. There was no attempt to approach David Koresh and peacefully seek answers to the questions that the government’s unconstitutionally created BATFE had; just an illegal, Posse Comitatus Act violative, armed invasion of a peaceful religious compound.

Listen to these recordings and see if you don’t agree that “Gun Control” in the U.S., erroneously, improperly, and illegally killed more than 80 innocent people who were forced to defend themselves against a violent, machine gun firing, NAZI Sturm Truppen like assault on their peaceful, religious compound home.

“Gun Control” starts with background checks, licenses and registration of firearms, then, finally, confiscation of those firearms, which confiscation removes from the polity it’s ability, and Right, to resist Tyranny.

Ponder this; why does the staff of this newspaper seek, with background checks, an a priori restraint on the actionability of the polity’s anti Tyranny Right to Self Defense, yet passionately protests any such check on the propaganda that is, within it’s pages, routinely spewed by it’s editors?

Isn’t this a case of “what is good for the goose, is also good for the gander?” The editors of this newspaper want you to believe that their “Right” is sacrosanct, but refuse to admit that their Bill of Rights “free speech” protecting 1st Amendment is no more important than my Bill of Rights anonymous ownership of weapons protecting, 2nd Amendment.

In fact, without the 2nd Amendment to bolster the other 9 Amendments, The Bill of Rights would be just so much political flummery.

The editors show that, with this background check suggestion, they worry not about Public Safety, but, rather are more concerned with aiding, of the elitists and statists among us, the desire for eventual subjugation of the Polity.

It has been said, “By their works, shall ye know them”. It was true then, it is true know.

Because of space limitations, the links to the recordings made of the Waco Massacre may have to inserted into a separate post.

Larry Farrell
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